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Sticky:[Rubicon] Electronic Attack Ships

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 12 post(s)
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 652	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:08:00 - [1] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: So yeah, these are good for griefing solo pvpers while abusing skirmish links, but terrible for actual gang ewar. This
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 655	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:35:00 - [2] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: They ar enot broken as #!@#!@ . They are still situational. They are all very fragile and will die to any light drones you send for them, they can barely pierce a wet paper bag with their firepower, so they are still going to work better supporting another ship, not solo. You can kite light drones with mwd
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 672	Posted - 2013.10.03 12:13:00 - [3] - Quote Prometheus Exenthal wrote: If these things go live as is, the only viable ship to solo around in will be a RLML Cerberus. Seriously. Increasing their range was the wrong idea. Absolutely. The right thing to do was to nerf their ewar abilities, and buff their combat abilities. Turn them into massively toned down AT ships basically.
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 672	Posted - 2013.10.03 12:18:00 - [4] - Quote Or just nerf the eafs and then let them use ewar or ewar immune ships
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 672	Posted - 2013.10.03 12:19:00 - [5] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Chessur wrote: there is no reason not to include it. If you don't fit faction webs to your rapier, you are either bad at game and poor- or bad at game.... and just bad. completely different to faction web a rapier and ahyena. Hyena will die 50 times more. Its can be easily insta popped. You woudl be wastign isk most of time using faction webs on it. Hyena is probably just as survivable as a huginn, since it goes twice as fast and has a third of the sig
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 681	Posted - 2013.10.08 12:01:00 - [6] - Quote Do you realize you can fit 20k ehp on these things in a fleet fit OR fit it for sig and have it abing around at 5k/s with a 20m sig WITH 6k ehp AND an MASB? (Warrior II drone has a 25m sig).
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 682	Posted - 2013.10.08 12:09:00 - [7] - Quote Bouh Revetoile wrote: Michael Harari wrote: Do you realize you can fit 20k ehp on these things in a fleet fit OR fit it for sig and have it abing around at 5k/s with a 20m sig WITH 6k ehp AND an MASB? (Warrior II drone has a 25m sig). That looks more like a link thing than anything else... Its a fitting thing. You should not be able to fit triple MSE to a keres with any number of fitting mods, but it fits quite easily. Same with 10mn ab + mse + masb (all on the same fit) hyena The webbing people at 85km while mwding at 10k/s yeah, thats a link+snake thing.
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 682	Posted - 2013.10.08 12:24:00 - [8] - Quote Any frigate cant web you at 85k. Also you can drop the masb, fit a 2nd web, and still have enough hp, particularly with your sig that is 4/5ths of a light drone.
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 682	Posted - 2013.10.08 13:27:00 - [9] - Quote Garviel Tarrant wrote: EDIT: Actually, did you just use "Its overpowered so noone will fight it" As an arguement for the balance being ok? O.o He did.
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 682	Posted - 2013.10.08 14:27:00 - [10] - Quote ArmyOfMe wrote: CCP Rise wrote: When you move them out of the 1v1 environment and into small groups I think they seem like they will be alright because as the second group says, their survivability still isn't amazing. The problem here is that if you run into a group that has a couple of these new eaf's, they will be able to stay outside your range while completly locking you down. The biggest issue here is that your giving a massive boost to a ship so small and cheap that we will end up seeing tons of them around. And why in gods name would you give them the range boost?? Lets face it, EW in eve is to powerfull as it is. We really dont need to make this game less fun for the majority of the players. Pretty much this. Its giving recon bonuses (which are borderline broken already) to ships that can zoom around at 10k/s and lock you extremely quickly. Edit: Recon bonuses to ships that cost 10% as much as recons

Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 682	Posted - 2013.10.08 14:35:00 - [11] - Quote Bouh Revetoile wrote: Garviel Tarrant wrote: Reacting to frigates warping to you really won't be a thing anymore, 3 seconds is a really really short time to do any reacting.. assuming you hit your short range scan the very moment they are in range of it. I just think you could have made them viable through something other than making them better at staying out of danger and screwing you over. The game doesn't need a frigate that neuts at 30 km or one that webs at 26.. I think this change will make small scale warfare less enjoyable while not making any real positive changes to the larger scale. I tend to think that EWAR in general would diversify small scale pvp. These EAF don't look that hard to kill in a fight provided you have a fast frigate to hunt them down. Your fast frigate is probably 1) Not that much faster, if it is even as fast 2) Gets neuted out at 35k/webbed at 50k/jammed at 150k/damped to 500m lock range/scrammed at 25k Sure, you can swarm an EAF with frigates, but if the counter to a ship is to bring 4 or 5 ships, thats pretty damn broken. Eafs basically act as anti-tackle with their ewar, so sending tackle after them is not the best idea in the world
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 682	Posted - 2013.10.08 14:45:00 - [12] - Quote Bouh Revetoile wrote: If your EAF is busy trying to evade your attack frigate, then it's not hammering your fleet with EWAR. Frigate warping fast work both ways. An interceptor can easily warp out/warp in to ennemy EAF to kill them by surprise. Are you serious? You really cant stay within 150km of an enemy ship while avoiding a tackler? Or lets say you do get close to one of them. Hyena double webs you, and their anti-tackle zealot or w/e 2 shots you. It then goes back to webbing w/e it wants
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 682	Posted - 2013.10.08 14:48:00 - [13] - Quote Hell, kitsune can jam outside of sentry range
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 684	Posted - 2013.10.08 17:05:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Can you convince me that they are? The most popular Recon sees less airtime than a Stabber. I'm sure that won't sound sufficient but I'm not sure how it could be proven. I bet you pre-nerf titans also saw less airtime than pre-buff stabber. Its not a good comparison, and doesnt mean titans hitting cruisers wasnt overpowered. Rise, I know you have done your share of small gang pvp. In how many situations is a recon that has just warped in or decloaked not called immediate primary? Do you think this is done because recons are more or less threatening than every other ship on the field? The comms in a typical engagement will be like "ok, raven is primary, put dps on raven, someone get me point" "point raven" "ok its going down, next primary will be that thorax burning in" "rapier!" "rapier primary all dps on rapier" And the decision to disenage a small gang? "Ok they have 2 falcons 2 scimis and a huginn, i think its time to leave" not "ok guys they have too many tempests, time to go home"
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 684	Posted - 2013.10.08 17:15:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: I can change Stabber to Cerberus and it's still true, and training time is similar. I'm not saying this is a perfect way of identifying power, just saying that screaming recons are OP isn't either and I'm not sure how we're going to get anywhere. If they are not already the most dangerous ship in the game (without frigate mobility), why are they almost always primary for any small gang? Ive seen gangs drop webs on a 2 bil tengu in order to clear a rapier off the field faster, and pretty much any small gang would do the same. A single uncontrolled recon kills entire gangs.
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 684	Posted - 2013.10.08 17:30:00 - [16] - Quote fwiw, my idea for the EAFs is to turn them into massively toned down versions of the AT frigates. Basically strip out the resist bonuses, a gun, a tank slot and a damage bonus or something, and give them a good chunk of mass.
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 684	Posted - 2013.10.08 18:08:00 - [17] - Quote SMT008 wrote: 5) The tank on the EAFs is RIDICULOUSLY low. It's almost interceptor-low. None of them exceed 6.5k EHP with regular fits (ie with T2 tank without bonuses, we're not talking about 3xMSE + Tengu boost tanks). Which means that an inty like a Crusader or any somewhat long-range platform can kill them in a few shots. What is signature and tracking? You can get a hyena to the point that a tracking bonused frigate with a web still has trouble hitting it. And that hyena can have an MSE and a masb.
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 684	Posted - 2013.10.08 18:17:00 - [18] - Quote Rise, if you are insistent on keeping the EAFs as they are, at the very least they should have nerfs to their fitting, mass and lock range. The fits im mentioning just shouldnt be possible. Just like interceptors need a sebo to make use of a linked, faction point, the EAFs should need lock range mods to make sure of linked faction webs and points.
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 684	Posted - 2013.10.09 13:36:00 - [19] - Quote More eaf madness: Kitsune can be set up to jam outside of the max lock range coded into the game (255km) . Jamming at more than 230km requires it to fit only 2 ecm instead of 3 though.
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 684	Posted - 2013.10.09 14:04:00 - [20] - Quote Unlinked it still has 1st jam falloff at 200 Edit: It can also fit a cloak, and can permajam most frigates

Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 684	Posted - 2013.10.09 14:32:00 - [21] - Quote gf
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 686	Posted - 2013.10.11 11:43:00 - [22] - Quote Good changes, but no PG nerf? You can still fit oversized ab with mse AND MASB on hyena, triple mse on keres, etc.

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